For the Record Interview
The following transcript is from a recorded conversation between myself and one of the key players in the area of monatomic
elements. The interview took place on July 27, 1996. Prior to our recorded conversation, it was agreed that the interviewee
was to remain as anonymous as possible therefore I cannot provide any specific information (e.g. name, contact information,
position, location etc.). For the record, I personally attest that this person is indeed both qualified and capable of speaking
on the following subjects. This material is not copyrighted and may be reproduced and distributed freely, but only in its
Strength In Wisdom
b: I understand that you have ingested monatomics in the past, what product did you take?
u: A combination of Iridium and Rhodium.
u: About two years ago.
b; How much?
u: I started with 250 mg a day and by the time I ended a 42 day fast was up to about 2500 mg. I probably took 2500 mg for
a total of five or six days though, and I only did 250 mg three or four days.
b: Then went up to 1000 mg?
u: I'm impatient, I moved up very, very quickly. I started taking the material eight days into the fast. I did a lot of
cleansing both before and during (slightly into the fast). During the fast, we monitored every single detail we could including:
blood sugar, blood pressure, weight, temperature...things we could have a handle on.
b: So, you were fasting for seven days. On the eighth day, you started taking 250 mg. Are you still taking it?
u: I still take material but I don't take it in that volume. Now you have to understand, these materials are present in
carrots. They're present in all kinds of food.
b: Yeah, grape juice, bilberry, slippery elm bark...are you currently taking any isolated material?
u: Occasionally. But not at 2500 mg doses.
b: Why did you take it in the first place?
u: There were a lot of things we wanted to find out about and there was no other way to do it. I'll tell you right now:
we didn't know if I would die or not.
b: But you were willing.
u: I have no fear about anything like that. I really do not have any fear.
b: What effect(s) can you attribute to your ingestion of this material?
u: It wasn't very long after I started that the sound started occurring. The sound outside of sound. That really
is key to what can happen. Most people will hear that and think their ears are ringing. If you're careful, you'll realize
that it's not in your ears. As you proceed with this, you'll realize that it actually moves outside your head and just above
the crown of your head. It's more than a sound, it becomes an emanation....it really does. And that's when you have something
that you can work with. By far, the majority of people who've ever had to deal with this didn't have a clue. If they'd studied
some Taoist alchemy...if they had studied anything and applied it to themselves rather than keeping everything outside themselves...they'd
have known that the dialogue they build with that phenomena gives them the keys to the next steps. There really is a trade-off
that starts to occur. That's what made my experience so uniquely different from everyone else's.
b: So you were prepared for it.
u: I knew what to do. But there are very, very few people who do. This takes place internally. It's an active process.
You're not going to sit there and have this zip through you and all of the sudden these wonderful things are there. It can't
be that way. That's not the way the circuit is set up in your system. Your chakras and realizations are not built that way.
Nothing is built that way. And to expect something outside of that is absolute foolishness.
b: Is that all you experienced?
u: No, but that's a two day conversation in itself. If you want to get to the rest of your questions....it got to the point
where I was standing in an electric flame. I could tell you a million things that occurred that were all way different from
anything normal, but they occurred progressively as a result of me dealing with them.
b: Were you psychic prior to ingesting it?
u: Yeah, probably. But what happened afterwards is truly unique. It changed everything in a way that hasn't made my life
very nice. If you were to talk with some people, they would say it's made me impossible to be around...there's no way in the
world to lie. It's not fun. Most people are not going to like it. It's not light-hearted. It's not easy. Unless you have someone
that you can deal with that has a point of reference for it, you're going to be very alone. These materials and how they've
been dealt with historically have a rich, beautiful tradition built around them. Only now do I understand why.
b: Any adverse effects?
u: Well, my life is not Father Knows Best.
b: Are there any lasting manifestations?
u: Absolutely yes.
b: Care to elaborate?
u: Well, psychic, physical, emotional. b: Did you get more psychic?
u: Yes, oh god yes. Little things, all the time. It got to the point where you just didn't want to deal with it anymore.
Like answering someone way before they ask you...it scares people. When this happens thirty times or more, they realize that
it's not just a coincidence.
b: Do you think that your experience is typical of what others might experience?
u: No, I don't think my experience is typical of what anyone else experienced who did any meaningful amount of it. I'll
tell you right now, I'm the only one who did what I did. All of these sages that came out of the woodwork: after about 15
or 20 days, couldn't even make their fast. They started cutting corners and then said: 'Well it didn't happen to me'.
b: Had you had previous kundalini experiences?
u: Yes, I had on several occasions in my life.
b: Were you on the verge of having these experiences on your own volition?
u: Well, its like this: I knew what to expect. When it started to occur, it didn't frighten me. It's like waking up in
an Astral dream, the first few times you frighten yourself into waking. After that you finally say 'Wait a minute, don't do
a thing, I think we have finally hit the trigger', and then you float out. That's something I had worked at for years, and
years, and years. I got so far into it, I finally quit doing it. It got to where I could do it any time I wanted to within
five minutes or so.
b: Out of body experiences?
u: Yeah, I could put myself right there.
b: Well you've been on a spiritual path since what? Age eight?
u: My whole life has been tied to it. Being down-to-earth, incredibly well-grounded, reasonable, logical and not giving
up common sense is very important in this work. We're going to have to call it a prerequisite.
b: What do you think the mechanism is at play here? Is this a chemical reaction?
u: Well everything in your body, we could sooner or later get around to saying, is chemical but the junctions in your nervous
system are all made up of these materials. You've probably seen the paper Superconductive Tunneling and Biological Systems.
When you start overloading everythingwith this material, your real potential begins to be accessed. Now that's one thing that
happens. The real trick to it deals with the monatomic gold in a perfectly charged way. We could go on forever on this....
b: We have a lot of ground to cover too. Has anyone taken monatomic gold?
b: Who? You?
b: How long did you take it?
u: Very little. Not for very long.
b: Why did you stop?
u: There's very little of it to go around.
b: You would have taken more?
u: Of course I would have. I'll tell you right now. Monatomic gold can only be typified as The, not a, The
b: So you'd take as much as you could get?
u: It's not a matter of how much, it's a matter of having it prepared properly. It takes very little when it's prepared
b: What do you think a full course of the gold for humans is?
u: A full course would be one application.
b: Like 500 mg?
u: No, I doubt it's anywhere close to that. 500 mg, when you throw it out on a table, isn't very much. But we're not talking
volume here. Volume has nothing to do with it. It's also what you bring to the table that will have a great deal to do with
the banquet you enjoy.
b: What role do you play now in all of this?
u: Well, my role is my own. It's not really connected to anything. But, it is important to me, personally, to put together
enough coherent information to allow people a little easier access to this body of knowledge than they have had historically
with alchemical information. I used to be so angry about how the alchemical texts were written because so much of it is misleading.
Some of it is bad. Some of it's misinformation.
b: On purpose.
u: There was a real good reason for that, but now it's time for that reason to be over. There's a lot of danger that goes
with this and the danger is not something that takes place with occult practices. What I'm talking about is, for example:
say you were able to convert lead into gold. The monetary systems around the world are built around this system and all the
powers that be are pretty happy about the arrangement. If you have a wild card show up, it becomes dangerous for a lot of
b: We are all aware of the philosophical claims made for these materials: do you think the claims can be borne out?
b: Will humans truly effect biolocation?
b: You just think about where you want to go and you're there?
b: And you just take along your physical body?
u: Absolutely. Absolutely.
b: It's not a purified physical body? Sort of a less dense version of what we have?
u: Listen, it is physical. It is so physical you can eat, have sex, bleed.
b: Is this the voice of experience?
u: No. But I'm telling you it's absolutely physical. It's not allegorical. It's not symbolic. Those are nothing more than
Tinkerbell and Disney.
b: Could we beam our selves to an inhospitable environment and die?
u: No you can't.
b: It's physical.
u: It's physical here where it's supposed to be this way.
b: So you become what ever is appropriate for the place you beam to?
u: Yeah, of course. You'd hate to show up at the ball in your painting clothes. But from the point of logic you are using
right now, you can only apply that logic to how that might be. When it occurs, you've already moved yourself to that place.
The change takes place at the same time.
b: But you still have memories of this third dimensional reality and your previous life. You are still 'you'?
u: It's not just a memory. Which do you think would be the most amazing miracle: if I brought someone back to life, or
changed water to wine. The truth is: they're both the same. If you can do one, the other's just as possible.
b: It's just moving atoms around.
u: It's even simpler than that. You're turning, literally turning, ninety degrees. There's another reality right around
the corner. And when I say right, I mean ninety degrees. It's physically right around the corner.
b: Isn't it just a change of perspective or perception?
u: No, there's a whole new deal there that is beautiful and so totally other that it's nearly impossible to imagine
from here. But you can go both ways. Once you are capable of one, you can do the other. Like I said, water into wine is no
different that turning lead into gold.
b: Or turning the sky green.
u: That's right, once you learn to cheat this way you can cheat any way you want.
b: How about the technological claims? Like the fuel cell application?
u: Oh yeah, that's totally wrapped up. That's fact, fact, fact.
b: How about the medical claims?
u: Absolutely. All the technological and biological possibilities are incredibly real possibilities.
b: Do you see any other uses that haven't been mentioned?
u: Thousands of them. Anything that concerns itself with catalytics ...
b: Are we finally going to get off the grid? Will we be free?
u: Well we may be, and there will be many, many, many hundreds and thousands that will. But if you're talking about the
five billion or six billion: most of those are going to perish. But that's OK, it took this many to get us where we are now.
b: So we're talking the 144,000?
u: Well, don't hold me to a figure like that. There's just a logistical problem that goes along with this. You can't just
hand it out in a crowd, there's a lot more that goes into this. But let me tell you, the capabilities of discernment that
go along with what I'm talking about are great.
b: So when you're talking about this stuff do you mean Rhodium, Iridium, Gold? Do you mean all of it?
b: You only mean gold.
u: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
b: So what about the rest of the stuff? Is it only gold that will do the philosophical
u: No, the other will do a lot of things but I'm talking about something beyond most people's ability to even imagine.
b: You said before the you thought many people might die from the ingestion of these materials.
u: The emotional shock of it would be enough to kill most people. Look, even if you took someone 3/4 brain-dead and started
pumping it down them, in a certain amount of time you would probably start to effect them on an emotional level.
b: Do they need to Believe it's going to work?
u: No, this doesn't require any belief. These are physical materials, they're not allegorical.
b: What can you do to prepare yourself in order not to die or suffer any adverse effects?
u: You can not sit in a cloistered room and prepare yourself for any type of disturbance. Your ability to deal with being
disturbed, having your boat rocked, putting up with the storm, being tough, being gentle, being loving, being harsh, being
all of those things...
b: Being real?
u: Yes, those are the things that prepare you for this. Thinking everything is love, beautiful and New Age horse shit,
isn't going to do it. You're going to get slam-dunked.
b: What types of adverse effects to you anticipate?
u: It could be as simple as someone with cancer, who doesn't believe that something so weird could possibly have an effect
on them, taking it at the request of a loved one and finding themselves miraculously cured. Now that could be a huge emotional
shock to someone. If you really think about it for a minute, people's belief systems act as t h e best
prisons in the world.
b: I was speaking more in terms of physiology.
u: No, no I don't think so. Your whole body depends on this just to be able to act like you're alive.
b: Do you think everyone should ingest monatomics? Who should or should not and why?
u: Everyone does ingest monatomics. They're present in common everyday foods. I don't think life would go on at all without
b: In concentrated forms.
u: In concentrated forms, I don't think it's for everyone. I don't think many people, in terms of percentages of the population
are going to be compelled to deal with this in the way someone who has spent years working on a spiritual path would be.
b: So, only people who are working on a path ....
u: Well, people who have been drawn to it from some very deep part of their soul.
b: With the many other materials purported to be monatomic on the market today and the prospect of even more in the future,
how will we be able to tell what is real and what is not?
u: 99.9% of all materials out there are total bullshit. Most people are being sold a bunch of hype. There are some materials
out there with monatomics in them, but generally you can get just as much from a couple of carrots. You know it makes me feel
very bad that this is being capitalized on by such unscrupulous people.
b: So how can we tell what is real?
u: There are people selling materials that have mercury and lead in them. They know it, and they're not including it in
the analysis they are putting forth. Through the analyses we've done, I can assure you that any White Gold products
(and there are many out there), contain no monatomic gold. Some are even contaminated with lead, a fact they choose not to
include in their public analysis. Now, isn't that spiritual?
b: Yeah, this brings out the best and the worst in people. So there's no way for people to tell if the material is safe,
or real, or what?
u: The only way to tell if a material is monatomic is through testing. If they are willing to pay for it. It can be done,
but it's going to cost $3,500 to $4,000 to do a certified analysis. There's only one lab, that I know of that can do it.
b: Can't you put it in aqua regia and if it doesn't dissolve....?
u: Yes, that would be a quick and dirty test. But all you would know is that it's monatomic. You wouldn't know what it
was: Osmium, Ruthenium.... etc. But you could also have something left there that's not monatomic, especially if the source
wasn't from a pure metal standard.
b: For what purpose, in your opinion, should the monatomic gold be used?
u: Most people who are going to take it on purpose are doing so for the sake of expanded consciousness. The gold has unique
physical properties. There are technological applications but those have never been applied. This is the edge of the razor
here, can you feel it?
b: So what would you do with a pile of monatomic Ruthenium?
u: Well, quite often those elements are very desirable in electronics.
b: And Palladium?
u: Well, those could be applied to a lot of catalytic applications.
u: Any type of surface-wear applications. Plating. Where very durable corrosive resistance necessities are present. Any
catalytic application. The same is true for Rhodium. Of course the biological applications for those two are the best known
at this point.
b: You said previously: 'You don't have to be a chemist to make this stuff', what did you mean by that?
u: Any housewife in Dallas could make this material right now in her own kitchen, if she did her homework.
b: But it still involves chemicals...correct?
u: Yes, it does. Lots of study, lots of time, lots of diligent observation.
b: Lots of holding your mouth right, saying the right things over it, putting your hands on it?
u: No, this is a physical thing. The observation is important. There's a lot of things that can happen. You have to build
an affinity for it.
b: Does it take twenty years?
u: No, you could do it in a few years probably. But it's one of those things that if you screw-up part of the way through
it, you have to go back and start over. You can't imagine how disheartening that is. It really is an exercise in patience,
perseverance and observation. My position on this is if someone is jazzed about it, they should bring it into their life.
What they bring is a rich tradition that is full of guidance that will come to them when their heart is in the right place.
b: Some people have children, bills to pay, and Oprah to watch. They don't have time to do it.
u: And that's a choice for them. This isn't something on the level where people just casually say they have an extra $100,000
or $500,000....there's no amount of money that can be put on what we're talking about.
b: There are a lot of people who think you could.
u: Those are the same people who should study the Mayan cargo system which still exists today. That is: you don't send
money to put on the parade when it's your turn to carry the flag. You carry the flag because that's the only thing that counts
for carrying the flag. When people think for a second that they can spend $500 and get a seat next to the Buddha they're wrong.
b: What do you think the ramifications of the distribution, and subsequent ingestion, of monatomics will be on: human evolution,
society, technology, finance, consciousness, the planet, the known/unknown universe?
u: Everything we know will be changed...on all levels.
b: Could you be more explicit? What do you think will happen to society?
u: When people start taking it and the materials start being applied, not just in terms of oral ingestion, the world will
never be the same again.
b: What is your vision of that?
u: Everything from biology to power production, political structures (decentralization of government), everything has the
potential to be radically changed. So many of the things I just mentioned are based on structures and paradigms which are
centered around control of resources....
b: And perceptions.
u: And perceptions, and all of those can very easily be displaced by the applications of these materials.
b: What do you think will be the effects on the known and unknown universe?
u: They're going to trade places. The expansion will be so great that 'expansion' is what is.
b: The process is what it's all about.
u: Yeah, it's not a matter of getting to a point where we've made this achievement... we've become aware because of the
speed of this achievement that it's an expansive, never-ending process.
b: Some of us, who are 'present,' are aware of this.
u: Some are. It's balance through movement. Like movement you have in the European Tarot deck's two of discs. It's like
the movement of a bicycle, the movement forward is what allows for the balance. The stability is there through the movement.
Where most people cling to an idea of stability with no movement.
b: Many people I come into contact with, think of it as a destination.
u: There is a lot of belief that this is 'the end.'
b: Do you see only a few people taking it at first?
u: Only a few.
b: Do you foresee a time when it will be available in vending machines?
u: No, I don't. If you study how our planet was peopled, creating the beings we are now, you'll find that political structures
have always made this an elitist phenomenon.
b: What kind of time frame are we looking at?
u: This is total conjecture on my part, but...a lot of this will remain in research for the next five years or so. After
that, there may be efforts for it to trickle out in some way. There are other people, I personally know, who are so far down
the road in applications and technologies (not necessarily in terms of production capabilities)...but you throw money at that
one and the problem goes away very quickly. There are many people working on this same project, as there have been in the
past. There are several ways of making this material.
b: You've said that there are different forms of monatomic gold? Do you mean different spin states?
u: It's not a matter of a higher spin state. It's a matter of once it is in the high-spin state, it being properly charged.
That involves very subtle operations. Very subtle. We're talking beauty again, that's how subtle.
b: Beauty in the true sense of the word.
u: There is a difference in these materials. They are all individual, unique materials. They have their own qualities.
That's why they have different names. To lump them all together under one heading as monatomic gold is just not accurate.
These are different materials.
b: You are making a distinction between isolated monatomics and more highly charged monatomics?
u: Yes, yes I am. This aspect has not been addressed as far as I know.
b: So what is the correct term to use in referring to these higher-charged materials?
u: I call it the Philosopher's Stone. You could call it the Manna. There's a lot of things you could call
b: But there's as much difference as night and day...ingesting this over the other.
u: That's an understatement.
b: Are you aware of other materials which carry the same attributes and implications?
u: No, this is it...the real thing...the only thing.
b: This meaning higher-charged monatomics?
u: You have to understand: the isolated materials are The Precursors. They were very difficult precursors to ever
come up with. Very difficult. But it's the battery that you have to charge. It has to be charged to be able to turn over the
governors that are present in our genetic code. Those were programmed in.
b: What practical advice do you have for those of us who know about these materials, and the potential they hold, but are
living outside of ground-zero?
u: Do your own homework. Don't Let Anyone Impose Their Truth On You. Let them present the various facts and make
your own decision. Keep searching for answers...your own answers. That seems a little patronizing in general, but realize
that it takes work...physical work. This is not something you read into existence. You read enough to know that you have to
do something physical. If all you do is read the book In Pursuit of Gold there's enough information there (if you apply
yourself) to go very, very far. For someone who's doing nothing, that is a huge step forward.
b: Do you have any specific advice for members of the Science of the Spirit Foundation (SOSF)?
u: This material is real, but if someone expects to eat it and suddenly fly through the chimney: they're in for a real
surprise. But the material, in terms of medical performance, is real. It will perform as expected and then some.
b: And the technological part? Some people are expecting to make some money on their investment.
u: They very well may. But there are so many other uses for this material...
b: If you had it all to do over again, what would you do differently?
u: Absolutely nothing.
b: No regrets on any of it?
u: None at all.